Comments for Musings of a Crazed Belle http://belleinblue.wordpress.com My thoughts on Family, Adoption, Men and just Life. Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:52:21 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 Comment on And the Crap Continues. by Jodi http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/and-the-crap-continues/#comment-84 Jodi Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:52:21 +0000 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/?p=79#comment-84 We were at the hospital when our son was born. We were not in the delivery room and I'm glad we weren't. That is something our son's first mom has all to herself (and her mother). Plus, why should anyone expect that a woman that we had only known for a few months would want some strangers staring at her private parts. I think that would be just as uncomfortable for her as it would be for us. We never visited our son in a private room--it was always in the room with his first mom, her friends and her family. We didn't request to either. We are so very grateful that we were able to have the time we did with her. We did our best to give her private time too--in fact, she called us one morning wondering where we were! Don't get me wrong--I would have stayed the entire time if she had asked me too--but I certainly don't think that it was my right to be there. Our relationship continues to grow and flourish and we have a beautiful open adoption. I love knowing her family and who her friends are. We live close so it is not uncommon to run into people that we all know. They all supported her throughout her pregnancy and I love to share our son with them! We are so very proud. I think it is important to note that even if an emom has a plan--that she still has a right to change her mind. Like maybe at first she wants the paps there. . . and then feels uncomfortable and wants more privacy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We were so prepared for change during the whole process--always trying to be respectful of how she may be feeling. Now, our 2nd adoption was completely different. :0) That's a whole different post in itself! We were at the hospital when our son was born. We were not in the delivery room and I’m glad we weren’t. That is something our son’s first mom has all to herself (and her mother). Plus, why should anyone expect that a woman that we had only known for a few months would want some strangers staring at her private parts. I think that would be just as uncomfortable for her as it would be for us. We never visited our son in a private room–it was always in the room with his first mom, her friends and her family. We didn’t request to either. We are so very grateful that we were able to have the time we did with her. We did our best to give her private time too–in fact, she called us one morning wondering where we were! Don’t get me wrong–I would have stayed the entire time if she had asked me too–but I certainly don’t think that it was my right to be there. Our relationship continues to grow and flourish and we have a beautiful open adoption. I love knowing her family and who her friends are. We live close so it is not uncommon to run into people that we all know. They all supported her throughout her pregnancy and I love to share our son with them! We are so very proud.

I think it is important to note that even if an emom has a plan–that she still has a right to change her mind. Like maybe at first she wants the paps there. . . and then feels uncomfortable and wants more privacy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We were so prepared for change during the whole process–always trying to be respectful of how she may be feeling.

Now, our 2nd adoption was completely different. :0) That’s a whole different post in itself!

]]> Comment on Talon by Karen http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/2008/12/18/talon/#comment-83 Karen Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:17:20 +0000 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/?p=92#comment-83 It was my understanding that the birth mother in this case is (or was) a drug addict. The birth mom was considered unfit by child welfare to be with the child, and still believes Talon is best served with them. But, what I understand is that the birth mother was pressured by the tribe. It was the tribe Chief that took them to court to get the child back, not the birth mother, and the Chief won, based on the child not being placed in an Indian household (Indian Child Welfare Act) . The child did not go back to birth mom, but is being placed into foster care within the tribe. You make some great points, but in this case the child is probably better with the people that already love him, being that he is not going to be with the birth mother. I blame the adoption agency that knew the mother was Indian...or should have known, if she lives with her tribe. It was my understanding that the birth mother in this case is (or was) a drug addict. The birth mom was considered unfit by child welfare to be with the child, and still believes Talon is best served with them. But, what I understand is that the birth mother was pressured by the tribe. It was the tribe Chief that took them to court to get the child back, not the birth mother, and the Chief won, based on the child not being placed in an Indian household (Indian Child Welfare Act) .
The child did not go back to birth mom, but is being placed into foster care within the tribe.
You make some great points, but in this case the child is probably better with the people that already love him, being that he is not going to be with the birth mother. I blame the adoption agency that knew the mother was Indian…or should have known, if she lives with her tribe.

]]> Comment on In the Hospital by Amaurosis http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/in-the-hospital/#comment-82 Amaurosis Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:43:43 +0000 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/?p=90#comment-82 Sorry, I forgot to actually respond to the post, which was my whole point. :) <i>Sadly though, most women think it is expected of them to allow that. Agencies and attornies push the idea that pre adoptive parents NEED to be involved in everything and that it is their right because they will be the parents someday. </i> This is bad. I won't go into my rant about (many) agencies and attorneys, but suffice it to say that generally I think that they should be run out of business. In this particular case, the thing is, it's not that the PAPs WILL be the parents someday...it's that they MIGHT be the parents someday. From the time prior to birth all the way to TPR, the PAPs are exactly bupkis from a legal and moral standpoint. There are no rights for anyone except for the parents (as in the biological, first, and only parents), and I think that needs to be made considerably more clear to PAPs and moms alike. <i>As far as hospital staff go, alot of them are pretty clueless. They doctors didn’t want to tell me anything about my son after he had been moved, they believed it would be too hard for me. Nothing is going to make adoption harder than not knowing, besides I was still his mother, his only mother, I hadn’t even chosen an agency until after he was born. Clueless I tell you, clueless.</i> Oh, sister, I could write a book. The hospital where our son was born was a total trainwreck. They essentially decided that, since they didn't understand the entire adoption scenario and couldn't be bothered to ask or listen, they would just treat everyone really, really badly. They wouldn't let our son's mom see him in her room, make decisions about who could visit the baby, or decline medical treatments. At the same time, they wouldn't let us see the baby without supervision or make decisions about medical treatment even after TPR and medical PoA had been executed (we had a sort of long hospital stay). So really, the hospital de facto took over custody of the baby. It was only after I (belatedly) played the oh-I'm-a-doctor card that they stopped treating everyone involved like crazed baby snatchers. Ugh. It's not that hard, for heaven's sake. When the baby is born, he has exactly one mother, the woman who gave birth to him. She is the boss, and she should be treated exactly like every other mother. If she chooses to allow the PAPs to see the baby, great, but they have exactly the same rights as any other friend of the mom -- as in, none (other than to be treated decently by the hospital staff). Sorry, I forgot to actually respond to the post, which was my whole point. :)

Sadly though, most women think it is expected of them to allow that. Agencies and attornies push the idea that pre adoptive parents NEED to be involved in everything and that it is their right because they will be the parents someday.

This is bad. I won’t go into my rant about (many) agencies and attorneys, but suffice it to say that generally I think that they should be run out of business. In this particular case, the thing is, it’s not that the PAPs WILL be the parents someday…it’s that they MIGHT be the parents someday. From the time prior to birth all the way to TPR, the PAPs are exactly bupkis from a legal and moral standpoint. There are no rights for anyone except for the parents (as in the biological, first, and only parents), and I think that needs to be made considerably more clear to PAPs and moms alike.

As far as hospital staff go, alot of them are pretty clueless. They doctors didn’t want to tell me anything about my son after he had been moved, they believed it would be too hard for me. Nothing is going to make adoption harder than not knowing, besides I was still his mother, his only mother, I hadn’t even chosen an agency until after he was born.
Clueless I tell you, clueless.

Oh, sister, I could write a book. The hospital where our son was born was a total trainwreck. They essentially decided that, since they didn’t understand the entire adoption scenario and couldn’t be bothered to ask or listen, they would just treat everyone really, really badly. They wouldn’t let our son’s mom see him in her room, make decisions about who could visit the baby, or decline medical treatments. At the same time, they wouldn’t let us see the baby without supervision or make decisions about medical treatment even after TPR and medical PoA had been executed (we had a sort of long hospital stay). So really, the hospital de facto took over custody of the baby. It was only after I (belatedly) played the oh-I’m-a-doctor card that they stopped treating everyone involved like crazed baby snatchers. Ugh.

It’s not that hard, for heaven’s sake. When the baby is born, he has exactly one mother, the woman who gave birth to him. She is the boss, and she should be treated exactly like every other mother. If she chooses to allow the PAPs to see the baby, great, but they have exactly the same rights as any other friend of the mom — as in, none (other than to be treated decently by the hospital staff).

]]> Comment on In the Hospital by Amaurosis http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/in-the-hospital/#comment-81 Amaurosis Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:11:18 +0000 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/?p=90#comment-81 Oh, I just saw this. Thanks for responding. chowchow22: I can completely understand why you would feel this way. My husband and I were worried about that as well. I think that one of the massive issues in adoption ethics, though, is balancing protection from possible coercion with respect for the autonomy and wishes of the expectant mother. I am really uncomfortable with statements about "not allowing" e-moms to ask the PAPs to be in the hospital or "requiring" mothers who intend to place to take the babies home. Adoption as an institution can be really infantilizing to women, and anyone paternalistically deciding what is "best" for mothers writ large is not respectful nor does it empower mothers. It's not okay whether it's the adoption industry, PAPs, or other birthparents. I'm not at all saying that that's what you were saying, chowchow...just that it's a concern of mine. I don't have an answer to this at all. Coercion is a very real and present thing in adoption, and it's unacceptable. On the other hand, we can't end coercion by limiting the rights of mothers, either. lhjh4, I hope that you didn't think that I was implying that anyone is selfish for not allowing the PAPs of their child to be present in the hospital, or for taking as much time as they need to make the decision. I wish that every mom had that kind of time and clarity. No one owes their child to anyone, and no one should feel (or be made to feel) like they're on a time clock with their baby. Oh, I just saw this. Thanks for responding.

chowchow22: I can completely understand why you would feel this way. My husband and I were worried about that as well. I think that one of the massive issues in adoption ethics, though, is balancing protection from possible coercion with respect for the autonomy and wishes of the expectant mother. I am really uncomfortable with statements about “not allowing” e-moms to ask the PAPs to be in the hospital or “requiring” mothers who intend to place to take the babies home. Adoption as an institution can be really infantilizing to women, and anyone paternalistically deciding what is “best” for mothers writ large is not respectful nor does it empower mothers. It’s not okay whether it’s the adoption industry, PAPs, or other birthparents. I’m not at all saying that that’s what you were saying, chowchow…just that it’s a concern of mine. I don’t have an answer to this at all. Coercion is a very real and present thing in adoption, and it’s unacceptable. On the other hand, we can’t end coercion by limiting the rights of mothers, either.

lhjh4, I hope that you didn’t think that I was implying that anyone is selfish for not allowing the PAPs of their child to be present in the hospital, or for taking as much time as they need to make the decision. I wish that every mom had that kind of time and clarity. No one owes their child to anyone, and no one should feel (or be made to feel) like they’re on a time clock with their baby.

]]> Comment on Christmas by M. http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/2008/12/23/christmas/#comment-80 M. Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:24:51 +0000 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/?p=95#comment-80 Hope you get what you want from all of your family this Christmas and in the coming new year! Hope you get what you want from all of your family this Christmas and in the coming new year!

]]> Comment on In the Hospital by belleinblue http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/in-the-hospital/#comment-79 belleinblue Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:29:57 +0000 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/?p=90#comment-79 You are hardly selfish, you did what EVERY woman and man, if he is inavolved, should do. I wish I had would have had more time. The one hour I got alone with him just wasn't enough. You are hardly selfish, you did what EVERY woman and man, if he is inavolved, should do. I wish I had would have had more time. The one hour I got alone with him just wasn’t enough.

]]> Comment on In the Hospital by lhjh4 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/in-the-hospital/#comment-78 lhjh4 Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:27:39 +0000 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/?p=90#comment-78 I am happy that Supergirls parents were not there. I am happy that they didn't meet her until she was almost 2 weeks old. Call my selfish but I am happy that I got that time with her where she was mine, that I made the decisions and had no other input from outsiders. The only thing I wish is that we spent more time together. I am happy that Supergirls parents were not there. I am happy that they didn’t meet her until she was almost 2 weeks old. Call my selfish but I am happy that I got that time with her where she was mine, that I made the decisions and had no other input from outsiders.
The only thing I wish is that we spent more time together.

]]> Comment on In the Hospital by chowchow22 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/in-the-hospital/#comment-77 chowchow22 Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:15:12 +0000 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/?p=90#comment-77 I feel all kinds of ICK, about the PAPs being there EVER. IMO~ it sets the stage for placement and I don't like to see that locomotion started because it can not be stopped without herculeon strength~which hormonal Mommies in crisis do not possess. Even as support, it is subtle coercion. JMO I feel all kinds of ICK, about the PAPs being there EVER. IMO~ it sets the stage for placement and I don’t like to see that locomotion started because it can not be stopped without herculeon strength~which hormonal Mommies in crisis do not possess. Even as support, it is subtle coercion. JMO

]]> Comment on In the Hospital by brown325 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/in-the-hospital/#comment-76 brown325 Tue, 16 Dec 2008 02:33:49 +0000 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/?p=90#comment-76 I was thinking about this very thing not too long ago. I did not mind at all having my daughter's mom with me. I do regret not making a bigger effort to spend time with DD, but to be honest, I was booted out of the hospital faster than you could blink (24 hours after she was born) so honestly there wasn't time to be had. And her mom did offer to have me stay with them for a few days. That I wish I had said yes to, but I was afraid. My boss is an a dad who's two girls were born in the same hospital as my DD, ironic because I gave birth 800 miles away. I was talking to his wife about the girls a few weeks ago, and somehow we got to talking about the area and she mentioned that the hospital was wonderful, but she felt that as the a-mom, she was brushed aside. Which is pretty insane, because 16 years ago, I felt the exact opposite..... Great post :) I was thinking about this very thing not too long ago. I did not mind at all having my daughter’s mom with me. I do regret not making a bigger effort to spend time with DD, but to be honest, I was booted out of the hospital faster than you could blink (24 hours after she was born) so honestly there wasn’t time to be had. And her mom did offer to have me stay with them for a few days. That I wish I had said yes to, but I was afraid.

My boss is an a dad who’s two girls were born in the same hospital as my DD, ironic because I gave birth 800 miles away. I was talking to his wife about the girls a few weeks ago, and somehow we got to talking about the area and she mentioned that the hospital was wonderful, but she felt that as the a-mom, she was brushed aside. Which is pretty insane, because 16 years ago, I felt the exact opposite…..

Great post :)

]]> Comment on In the Hospital by alittlethingcalledhope http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/in-the-hospital/#comment-75 alittlethingcalledhope Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:57:58 +0000 http://belleinblue.wordpress.com/?p=90#comment-75 I couldn't agree with you more on every point. Tammy I couldn’t agree with you more on every point.

Tammy

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